Looking for DME BIN files

[Tom]

Hi Tom, thanks for the invite. What do you plan to change in your chip?
Here's a few sites you may find useful;
Tunerpro.net has TunerProRT and the bins with definition files. Also check out https://tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm#Porsche

I'm using a chip emulator from BoostedNW.com see https://boostednw.com/motronicrt
You will need to convert your DME to use 28 pin chips, it doesn't work with 24 pin chips. This device is very useful when paired up with TunerProRT- you can plug your laptop into your DME and upload changes in realtime.

I also have some old notes from FRWilk's site that have more detail if you really want to dig into the code. Just let me know.

[TLDR: stay away! Since this page comes up on google when searching for BoostedNW, I will wanted to echo the bad reviews about them found all over the internet. I waited months for them to ship and got nothing but radio silence despite many inquiries, yet they have time to post online about customers being 'impatient whiners' for asking about their orders, and other such childish nonsense. See post #53 in this thread, for example. My advice: stay far far away from Boosted NW! --Tom]


I'm reconfiguring my car for reliability and year-round smog legality. I'm putting in a Kroon harness now, and intend to reinstall the AFM. It will still be a 3 liter with big turbo, but I plan to run it on low boost up to the limit of the AFM and stock injectors (at least until I get tired of that too). Since I'm losing the MAF and piggyback, I'll need some way to tune, hence the DME chip tuning.

I've been playing with TunerPro RT and the various BINs I have, and am able to edit the various maps in TunerPro and burn chips. I'm just obsessing a bit on the xdf and map locations and math, as well as how various tuners went about tuning. Honestly, to accomplish my basic task, I think I have everything I need now. A few tweaks to an APE chip to improve the curve and back off on WOT timing for my motor, and I should be there. But I'm drawn to this stuff and just want to understand it as best I can. The more BINs I have to compare, the happier I'll be. I'd love to see your FRWilk notes! I've found quite a bit on old Porsche/BMW/Motronic forums, but I recall FRWilk being ahead of his time.

Are you using the Cobra RTP in lieu of Moates? I took a flyer and ordered a Cobra RTP last week, since all literature seemed to suggest it would work with both TunerPro RT and the DME. Can you confirm it does? If need be, I can just burn chips until I get it right, but doing it real time sure would be easier.

I have an FT9 DME, which is has the 28-pin chip socket. On the other hand, all my performance-chip BINs are for 24-pin chips. Based on hacking to date with hex editors and the like, I 'think' I can build my own 28-pin BIN by using the factory 8051 machine-language code in the first 4k of the chip, and then putting the 24-pin performance chip BIN in the upper 4k of the chip, and then tweak as needed from there. If that doesn't work for any reason, I can start with the factory 28-pin chip BIN, and edit all the maps as needed. Just seemed like it might be quicker to start with maps that have already been edited to deal with overboost and such...

[gruhsy]

I have this at work if you need to copy a 24 pin and burn it to a 28 pin.

Sent a copy of one of my Rogue chip off to someone on the Ftech9 thread back in 2022.

[Tom]

I have this at work if you need to copy a 24 pin and burn it to a 28 pin.

Sent a copy of one of my Rogue chip off to someone on the Ftech9 thread back in 2022.

Thanks for the offer. I have an old vintage EPROM burner from back in the day, but since it is set up to work with an Atari 800 or something, I also just got a cheap one on Amazon for like $60 -- which is better in every way than my old expensive one. On the 24-pin DME's, the 8051 CPU itself holds 4k bytes of executable code that runs the DME, and the 24-pin (4k) chip holds the tuning maps. When Bosch switched to 28-pin (8k) chips, they put the programming code in the first 4k bytes of that chip, and the tuning maps in the second 4k. So, while you could transfer a 24-pin BIN onto a 28-pin chip, the 28-pin chip would then not have the programming code that the 28-pin DME needs. That's what I meant about "building" a 28-pin BIN, using the executable code from a 28-pin chip, and the tuner maps from a 24-pin chip. I have a 24-pin chip that's only needs minor tweaks to be just right, so am hoping to use it as the maps-half of a 28-pin chip. If that makes any sense at all...

Would love to get my hands on some performance 28-pin BINs though, just to confirm there's not more to it.

[Dave W.]

I did something similar- my car came with a 24 pin APE stage 2 chip. Originally I used an Ostrich emulator which required 28 pin hardware, so I converted the DME to 28 pins and kept the 24 pin code base. I just offset the starting address and it worked. I'm still using the APE code base with many changes built on top of it.

My Ostrich went bad last year. They don't make them anymore so now I'm using the CobraRT. I leave a USB cable plugged into the Cobra in the car. Much easier to make random, whimsical changes.

Yes there's a lot of fun math if you want to know about the table headers. Have you viewed the XDF Parameter info in TunerPro? Just hover the cursor over a parameter, right click to open a sub menu, then select 'Edit Parameter XDF info'. That will open all the info that defines the table/scalar.

[Dave W.]

Which XDF do you have? I just looked at the XDF from the TunerPro site and the XDF from RogueTuning's site. They're both the same and they're very limited. I thought there was an advanced version out there somewhere. Does your XDF have Dwell Time?

[Tom]

Which XDF do you have? I just looked at the XDF from the TunerPro site and the XDF from RogueTuning's site. They're both the same and they're very limited. I thought there was an advanced version out there somewhere. Does your XDF have Dwell Time?

It does not. I found the 2 you mentioned, but as you say they seem identical and limited. I imagine Josh got his from The TunerPro site (or vice versa). If there is a more complete version floating around, I'd love to find it. If you can find it, you'd be my hero. Absent that, I was going to poke around and see if I could find more file locations to better populate the XDF -- but that's likely a much longer-term project. I know Josh had access to the dwell tables as he posted about them in connection with his big coil post on RL, but apparently opted not to share that.

[markl951]

Tom,
Joshua still has his DIY tuning tools page available. It's a great resource but the TunerPro .xdf file he supplies is a bit limited. Having a 28 pin DME and an EPROM Emulator speeds the tuning process but it's not necessary if you have access to a chip burner.

https://roguetuning.com/diy_free_944_tuning_tools

Haaaa. I need to type faster

[Dave W.]

If you want to obsess over advanced XDF's, check out the files for Rogue's M-Tune. https://www.roguetuning.com/rogue_tunin ... tup__files

[Tom]

I did something similar- my car came with a 24 pin APE stage 2 chip. Originally I used an Ostrich emulator which required 28 pin hardware, so I converted the DME to 28 pins and kept the 24 pin code base. I just offset the starting address and it worked. I'm still using the APE code base with many changes built on top of it.

My Ostrich went bad last year. They don't make them anymore so now I'm using the CobraRT. I leave a USB cable plugged into the Cobra in the car. Much easier to make random, whimsical changes.

Yes there's a lot of fun math if you want to know about the table headers. Have you viewed the XDF Parameter info in TunerPro? Just hover the cursor over a parameter, right click to open a sub menu, then select 'Edit Parameter XDF info'. That will open all the info that defines the table/scalar.

I'm going to use the Ftech9 DME for this, which is set up for the 28-pin EPROM. I'm planning to make edits to the maps in my 24-pin APE too, since it's close already and doesn't need all that much. I'm just not entirely sure my plan will work. It should if the external EPROM is still set up as ROM location 0, as I think it should be. If Bosch change the 'reset vector' to a higher location for the EPROM, then I could see potential problems if the executable code it not residing in the expected locations (jumping to wrong addresses, etc., screwed up interrupt locations, etc.). If the external access pin (31) on the 8051 is grounded, then I think the chances are high that the EPROM is location 0, and everything 'should' work. Famous last words. Time will tell.

One thing I don't know is whether the 8051 that came with the 28-pin DMEs still had the executable code onboard, or if they didn't bother to include it since it was set up to run the code off the EPROM? Probably just an academic question unless someone wants to convert a 28-pin DME to use a 24-pin chip.

Great to hear the CobraRT is working. I hadn't consider running the car all the time with the emulator -- is there any downside to that? And great tip on seeing the math in TunerPro! Thank you!

[Dave W.]

There's no downside to running the car with the Cobra plugged in all the time. That's what it's made for.

Just for fun, can you open your raw hex file ( goto Tools > Advanced > Hex Editor) and look at address 1924? Can you find this sequence:
37 0C 03 04 04 04 04 10 10 05 27 23
1F 5E 11 07 1D 1E 1D 1E 1D 07 0E

That's the header info for the Dwell table.

I just used the search tool at Hexedit and found that string at address 03DC in the stock 24 pin bin. Does that match your bin? Hexed.it is a great tool for searching for known strings in a bin.