Garage Thread

[Stormy_Monday]

I would just like to have the air conditioner....

[dr bob]

I would just like to have the air conditioner....

I suffered for years in a warm-but-not-humid garage situation in SoCal. Wasn't too bad near the beach except for a few weeks of Santa Ana winds in the fall with 110+ temps, a couple precent humidity. Moved inland, a part of the garage upgrade there was a dedicated air conditioner. A one-way heat pump, since it so seldom got cold enough to need more than a sweatshirt. Moved to Oregon, and got a funny look from the builder on my spec for a mini-split heat pump. It gets used for cooling a few dozen days a year, but priceless on those days. I spec'd some significant insulation and north pole rated garage doors here, which helps a lot. But the air is generally pretty dry so I don't spend a lot of cooling capacity dehumidifying.

My exposure to Florida has been limited, mostly central like Lakeland and some near Tampa. Even the non-summer humidity is severe enough that almost any working garage there deserves cooling and dehumidifying.


The most common comments I hear from folks who install heat pumps in garage spaces is that they wish they had done it a decade or three sooner. Like having a lift installed as far as I'm concerned. Just Do It.

[zooklm1]

What are some good quality brands for two post lifts? Should be able to buy the brand in Europe too. I want to read up on my options.

I purchased a used “Forward Lift” 10,000 pound capacity for $2,000 4 year ago. It was about 3 years old when I bought it from the shop owner. He had retired and closed several shops. It was branded as a Mac Tools. I had previously bought a Rotary 9,000 pound lift, also used. I chose certified used products over new, not certified lifts. Installing them yourself is not difficult. The picture is of the lift after installation. The red squares on the floor is where I added rebar and poured the slab about 10 inches thick. Best wishes for your search.

[Belgian951]

Thanks for the tips! The plans are nearing finalization.. Check out the garage. It's 5.7 X 7.87 meters (18.7 feet x 25.82 feet which totals to 44.86 M² or 482.87 sq ft) with an extra 18.43 m² (or 198.38 sq ft) storage space above it. Still unsure whether to make this space heated and if so, how (floor heating, low temp radiators, airco, after thought space heaters, ...?) and of course, whether this will be built anyway since everything became so expensive!

Note: in the picture below the top two rooms are not included in said volume. The left room is storage for the kitchen (not seen in picture) and the right top room is the mud room which leads to the garden. Above these two rooms is the storage space, which is basically a platform where I hope to put car stuff!

garage.jpg (278.42 KiB) Viewed 1704 times

[dr bob]

Thoughts, in no particular priority --

-- The spiral stairs will be a challenge when you need to carry anything up to the top level.
-- A railing will be the minimum on that upper level. Full walls will keep things cleaner, and will also look a lot cleaner.
-- Plan on placing some utilities up there, like air compressor and a built-in vacuum system for car cleaning. I failed to include the vacuum system, and regret having the noisy unit even in its sound-insulated cabinet at floor level.
-- Make sure you have sufficient room for tools cabinets and such in the workspace. Room to open drawers and doors particularly around the lift columns. It looks like there's a work surface on the right side but not the left. Maybe center the lift in the open space rather than between the walls.
-- If the lift columns are permanently mounted, consider where and how you'll park the car when you aren't using the lift. You'll want to be able to open the doors fully for access. You may decide that the lift is a little deeper in the space.
-- My architect was using some 'canned' car images when he shared the first drawings, and they were downscaled to make the space look bigger.. Fortunately, the software he was using was a subset of the AutoCAD I used, so I was able to see and adjust the sizes for a better representation of how things would actually fit.
-- Since I could, I added a design drawing layer for all the garage storage cabinets, tools, and equipment, to see how it would all fit. Did my part in 3D so we could do virtual walkthroughs, even though the architect wasn't a 3D thinker. Even if you just do a couple simple 'elevation' drawings to scale, it will help you visualize things. I ended up doing the whole house in 3D for him, which helped with coordinating some other support and alignment issues. He's still old-school, even after the free 3D clinic.
-- I added a "mini-split" heat pump for managing temperature. Even if you don't install one right away, be sure to make provisions (electrical, and a duct for the hoses, the condensate drain, plus support for the outside unit up where it won't be in the way) for it now. Much easier now than trying to retrofit later in finished walls.
-- I've never heard anyone complain that their garage workbay is too large, too open, or too well-lit.

[DMRK]

That is awesome, looks great!

[dr bob]

I was browsing a local sale ad for a heat pump system at a very attractive price point. There's already a double-header system managing the workbay and and my office, so more from casual curiosity. The big revelation was the ease that these systems offer for installation. The refrigeration line sets are pre-charged with refrigerant, with quick couplers taking out all the fun of evacuating and charging the system. The low-priced system on sale has some less than great user reviews. I wouldn't think twice about installing a mini-split system, as it seems several name-brand options offer the same easy connection option. The Mitsubishi systems are what I'm seeing a lot at my newest client sites, and would probably top my selection list. There are certainly others.

stay cool!

[zooklm1]

My experience was initially planning for heat to make the shop useful in the winter. Since is planned to use it for woodworking as well as car work, I was concerned about dust and explosion hazard. Therefore I chose to install radiant floor heating. I was all in for less than $2k for everything a did all the work myself. Key to success on this was keeping all the zones equal in length and adequate power (I used an electric mini-boiler- 50 amps, 220v). I would consider this a constant load because it cycles on based on the set temperature while you could be using other high current equipment. I normally keep the slab at 60 deg F and will “warm it up” to 65 when I am planning to do more than an hour of activity in the shop.

I also installed a mini split unit about 1.5 years later for the A/C component. My primary purpose for the A/C is to dehumidify the shop. My insulation and shade from trees usually keep the shop below 85 degrees F but the humidity can feel like 100%. I will set it to 80 when in the shop. It also has heat capability but relies on the heat pump. It uses 220v 25 amp. I found a 1year old 28k BTU unit on Facebook marketplace for $500 and did the installation myself, short the refrigerant lines and charging the system. All in cost for the mini-split was less than $1500 for the unit, supplies and professional help. My insulation was r-19 in walls and 32 in ceiling. I also have a 10ft diameter ceiling fan that keeps the air moving, too.
I hope this info helps you with your planning.
Lee

[Sam_Flat6]

Here one that’s a dream realized.

[Belgian951]

Thanks for the tips and sorry for my delayed response. Some changes:

- had a second kid
- decided to add a lift system for goods in the future so I can put heavy objects like an engine up the storage space if necessary. A cut in the railing will be added to accommodate
- i probably will extend the floor heating with a separate net for the garage so i can have different temperatures in the garage
- i definitely will add at least the necessary ducts and connections to accommodate AC
- the garage door has been widened to about 3.2 metres
- the garage will sit on top of a floodable basement because its mandated (flood zone)
- im thinking of adding water proof garage door plus water proof entry door to both garage and house.
- above, ill see if I can add air for air tools. Im not sure if air tools are better than battery tools though.... but all the shops seem to use them?