996 turbo vs GT2

[Thom]

This topic was certainly done to death on other forums but I thought it would be interesting to sample the knowledge of the Carpokes appreciation society.

Is the GT2 worth the premium over a run-off-the-mill turbo?

Does it just take a couple of turbos, different intercoolers, a retune and deleting the FWD on a turbo to turn it into a GT2, cosmetical differences left aside?

[Tom]

If you are just comparing bang for your buck, I'm sure you could make a 996 Turbo out-perform a 996GT2 on both the track and the drag strip for less than the price of a GT2. GT2 was a cool car, but it's pretty much a collector car these days, with collector car prices. 996 Turbo is a hot-rodder's car (less so than 10 years ago, but still). If you plan to mod it, I'd get the turbo; if you want a special factory car, and plan to enjoy it in factory form, and don't mind the price tag, then I'm sure the GT2 is awesome. I can't see it makes much sense to buy a GT2 if you plan to hot rod it, since you'd be killing the value you paid for, and since you can get to pretty much the same place (sans prestige/collectability) putting the same hot-rod parts on a regular turbo.

[Thom]

The figures suggest that a bone stock GT2 will not be satisfying performance-wise but the point would be more about learning how to drive it properly which may compensate more than enough with the conservative engine output.
With that said, if it does not feel that fast in a straight line then as you say the regular turbo would be the better choice as a potential hot rodder... but I am really unsure if at this stage in my life I want to get carried away in another heavily modified car that will end up as another money pit as the 944T does that well enough already.

[Tom]

Have you considered a 991 Turbo? Right off the lot, it will impress you in a straight line and on the track. From there, very slight mods can make it into a beast. Before I got my 991 Turbo S, I was in the market for a 996 Turbo and test drove quite a few. As a power-junkie, I was generally not impressed with the stock cars, and a lot of them came with the tiptronic transmission, which seemed a lot more like a regular automatic transmission to me. Nice cars, don't get me wrong, but just wonder if it's the right base for you... The tuned ones were faster and funner, but the ones I drove all had torque steer and other quirks that detracted from the experience. I'm sure you can get them to where you'd want it, but I think it will take some effort and cost as much or more than a newer car with the same or better performance.

If you haven't driven a 991 or 992 Turbo, you should give one a try. With the rear weight bias, PDK, and 4WD grip, they are effortlessly and impressively fast. They don't have the drama as a high power 944, but it would take a mighty-well sorted 951, with a great driver, to beat a mildly tuned 991 turbo on a drag strip. They run in the 9's with a tune and a few weekend bolts-ons...

[Thom]

I'm sure the 991/2 are ballistic but they never came with 3 pedals so that rules them out.
AFAIK the last turbo that came with a manual gearbox was the 997.1 but I prefer the look of the 996 that apparently is more of an analogue drive. The only 996 turbo I drove was retuned to around 600hp but the stock turbos seemed overstretched and the torque collapsed above 5500 rpm. I wasn't convinced at all when stepping out as at moderate speeds the car seemed like it tried to over-behave itself and it did not feel very natural... Perhaps have to start from scratch and see how it feels today.

[Tom]

...the car seemed like it tried to over-behave itself and it did not feel very natural...

Exactly. I drove a few 996's in various 'tuned' forms, and the combination of torque steer and less-specific chassis squirm made it feel exactly as you say.

Have you driven a true PDK car? Paddle shifting may not be as fun as a real clutch, but its fun in its own way and certainly better than an automatic. More to the point, they out-perform a manual in virtually every situation, and by a wide margin for outright acceleration times.

Technically, the 997 was not the last 911 Turbo with manual. They made a 992 Turbo with a manual, called the Sports Classic. It was a detuned version of my car with 7-speed manual. It's cool and all, but I could never wrap my head around paying 2 or 3 times the price of a 992 Turbo S for a car that takes nearly twice as long to get to 60mph....

https://finder.porsche.com/us/en-US/det ... ned-QKXEG8

[marin]

991.2 and 992 Carreras are all turbo now, and you can get them in a manual and rear wheel drive too. Also, easy to tune and add 100 hp if you want to do that.

[Thom]

@Tom
Ouch. That's way more than what I'd be willing to ever spend in a car even if I had the money.
I have not driven a PDK, but generally speaking my brain just can't deal with flappy paddles. They are totally unnatural for me. I'd rather drive a fully automatic car.

The 996 turbo always had a reputation for being a bit of boring and driving itself whilst just letting the driver think he was in charge, but this is where I'm curious how "better" the GT2 with no driving aids would be at giving a fuller, uncomputerised rear engine experience without the time and effort required to mod a 996 turbo... assuming a decent example could be found at a "reasonable" price. I might only replace the DMF with a GT3 flywheel to get some proper throttle response.

[Tom]

You should drive a PDK before ruling it out, but Marin makes and excellent point about the manual 911s that are turbocharge but not called Turbos. Those are screaming to be hot-rodded...

[Thom]

Ok, I'll try to drive a PDK. With that said, these cars are electronically too modern to trigger my interest. A friend who runs an independent garage servicing 80% of Porsches including 992s says the 996 is already right at the limit of what "we" folks who require having control over most electronic things on a hobby car may accept.