Hawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:26 am
New update from NBC news by Reuters confirms our worst fears. The EV Lithium-ion batteries are on fire. Fire is consuming entire ship, end-to-end, everything consumed in fire 5 meters above the water line. Requires specialist equipment to extinguish.
Was just a matter of time before the EVs went up even if they weren’t the reason for the fire. I wonder if they had made allowances for the fact they’re carrying EVs now with what fire suppression equipment they have onboard.
I remember when Richard Hammond crashed that Rimac they said the batteries burned for 5 days.
Hawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:26 am
New update from NBC news by Reuters confirms our worst fears. The EV Lithium-ion batteries are on fire. Fire is consuming entire ship, end-to-end, everything consumed in fire 5 meters above the water line. Requires specialist equipment to extinguish.
Was just a matter of time before the EVs went up even if they weren’t the reason for the fire. I wonder if they had made allowances for the fact they’re carrying EVs now with what fire suppression equipment they have onboard.
I remember when Richard Hammond crashed that Rimac they said the batteries burned for 5 days.
I'm sure that subsequent to the salvage investigation this incident will most definitely result in new transport and fire suppression requirements for all vehicles with Lithium-ion batteries. Question is how long will the investigation and report recommendations take? Hopefully, some meaningful precautions can be taken in the interim.
They are getting very close to being able to produce in volume Solid State rechargeable cells that do not use Lithium and will not combust. I have invested in one of them, Solid Power, Inc, which is currently producing solid state cells comprised of Sulfide Solid Electrolytes for EV use.
1,100 is a pretty big chunk of production capacity for Porsche.
I'm sure 189 is a lot for Bentley too.
Then there's the question of how many were special orders or limited edition cars.
Absolutely. Given supply chain shortages and existing orders it will be extremely difficult to re-manufacture / replace 1,100 cars. And, as you stated, how many are special order, PTS, etc. orders? Will certainly be a logistical challenge.
On a happier note, my TYD seems to be updating this morning and it appears that my build is being pushed up? Will not know until processing completes overnight and I can review tomorrow am. My wife and I were wondering if they are putting on an extra shift or speeding up production now to somehow be able to fit in an additional 1,100 unanticipated re-builds? Wonder what this may mean for my 1LQ PCCBs???
Well that's good news. Hard to imagine how this could speed things up for you, but maybe just a happy coincidence? Or I wonder if they schedule cargo ships so specifically that they are rescheduling the production cars that were expected to be carried on the Felicity Ace?
My change today/tonight may just be a coincidence? Porsche just published this:
"We are aware of an incident aboard the Felicity Ace, a specialized cargo ship carrying certain Porsche vehicles. Currently, the vessel has not been recovered and it is not confirmed that any units on the Felicity Ace are deemed a loss. However, as a contingency plan we have already prioritized production capacity in the coming weeks to ensure that every affected sold order will be replaced as soon as possible and as closely as possible to the original specification. Your dealership will provide you with information as soon as possible."
I read this to mean that only customer Sold cars will be replaced, "as closely as possible to the original specification," ASAP under this contingency plan. Sounds like dealer inventory units will be handled at a later time outside of this plan.
Tom wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:31 am
Getting the whole crew off safely was a miracle if you see some of those pictures of the ship just consumed in smoke.
What, maybe $300 to $400 million worth of cars? And if it's attributable to lithium batteries, that's likely to have some consequences. I read at least one report that said it started in the cargo hold...
Many reports and especially the one from the Felicity Ace crew indicate that the fire started in the cargo hold.
Felicity Ace still on fire this morning. This morning's report states that everything above the waterline has been burnt. The Felicity Ace has also developed a list toward starboard. Tugs scheduled to arrive on scene Wednesday (2/23). May be towed to Europe or Bahamas. Specialized equipment from Spain and the Netherlands is on route to help fight the fire. Photos courtesy Portuguese Navy:
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Tom wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:31 am
Getting the whole crew off safely was a miracle if you see some of those pictures of the ship just consumed in smoke.
What, maybe $300 to $400 million worth of cars? And if it's attributable to lithium batteries, that's likely to have some consequences. I read at least one report that said it started in the cargo hold...
Many reports and especially the one from the Felicity Ace crew indicate that the fire started in the cargo hold.
That makes more sense re the ship's value. There were other reposts listing it as worth billions. This marine-press report says $31.5m, so in same ballpark, though their cargo estimate seems a low.
Tom wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:31 am
Getting the whole crew off safely was a miracle if you see some of those pictures of the ship just consumed in smoke.
What, maybe $300 to $400 million worth of cars? And if it's attributable to lithium batteries, that's likely to have some consequences. I read at least one report that said it started in the cargo hold...
Many reports and especially the one from the Felicity Ace crew indicate that the fire started in the cargo hold.
That makes more sense re the ship's value. There were other reposts listing it as worth billions. This marine-press report says $31.5m, so in same ballpark, though their cargo estimate seems a low.
I guess they can't just flood the cargo hold to put it out:
I had the same reaction regarding the ships value. The first report listing billions had to be in error. The other reports vary - some list replacement value while others list current fair value. It's going to hurt regardless.
I read somewhere that submerging Lithium-ion in a water tank is the most effective way of finally extinguishing it, just as you depicted. It also said that the Lithium-ion reignites itself even while fully submerged and takes some time to fully extinguish. Awfully difficult to pick-up and submerge a burning EV in a water tank.
I guess if they flooded the hull they would have to cover all of the cargo decks and it would sink. Then we will never learn, if we ever do, the true origin of the blaze. I'm sure the crew is being interrogated as to what they actually witnessed.
We live in a 22 story high-rise with one level of underground parking for 75 cars, not dissimilar to a cargo deck. Yesterday, I had a lengthly discussion with our Building Manager regarding our preparedness if any of the EV's in our parking garage were to go on fire. The short answer is we have no special precautions. Just our automatic central fire sprinkler system with detectors and monitors. As a result, we are now going to have conversations with our legal counsel, insurance company, fire marshal, and then our BOD.
It reports 9 fires on vehicle carriers over its 11-year study period, and the cause of the fire was identified in on 2 cases: "The cause of the fire was only defined for two of the cases, one being within a new car (probably the electric
system), and the other due to shift of cargo in adverse weather."
For passenger RoPax vessels: "In all cases, the fire was caused by the cargo or the power connection between reefer unit and the vessel. "
Look at this worker's tour on youtube and you can get an idea of how close/cramped it is inside and you'll get a better picture of how easily a fire can spread and how hard it is to fight it...
Latest letter from Porsche to Dealer Principals and GM's. States that the vast majority of owner / sold cars will be replaced within the 2022MY. Given supply constraints, I suspect what this means is that the dealers will not receive all / any of their allocation of unsold cars until the re-manfacture is completed. Great news for affected customers. Not great news for dealers which will most likely mean even higher mark-ups for all new and used unsold dealer inventory.
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