How They Built Cars When Beauty Was All That Mattered

[Thom]

You are welcome, happy to share if it's of any interest.
By the way I did not mean in any way that the Pur Sang paled in comparison to the originals and they remain I think the closest "affordable" replica to the real deal one could aspire to. There are more accurate replicas and several specialists could probably turn a Pur Sang into a full original spec car but there are so many Pur Sang out there these days that they have a life of their own and seem accepted in Bugatti circles as long as owners aren't stupid enough to claim that they own an original car and just use them for what they are instead of trying to make them look like an 100% original car. It is a very small world and each car is more or less filed even among the replicas, unless perhaps the ones that hardly ever run and are kept hidden in collectors' basements. With a Pur Sang you can opt for an 8 cylinder car with the non original but technically-correct firing order and a plain bearing crank rather than an original spec roller bearing crank that gives nightmares to most machine shops. Original Grand Prix cars had no dynamo but Pur Sang fit an alternator below the seat and a battery. These are things that just make life easier.
Anyway, that was a bit too much Bugatti content perhaps and I don't mean to derail this thread any further!

[blueline]

You are welcome, happy to share if it's of any interest.
By the way I did not mean in any way that the Pur Sang paled in comparison to the originals and they remain I think the closest "affordable" replica to the real deal one could aspire to. There are more accurate replicas and several specialists could probably turn a Pur Sang into a full original spec car but there are so many Pur Sang out there these days that they have a life of their own and seem accepted in Bugatti circles as long as owners aren't stupid enough to claim that they own an original car and just use them for what they are instead of trying to make them look like an 100% original car. It is a very small world and each car is more or less filed even among the replicas, unless perhaps the ones that hardly ever run and are kept hidden in collectors' basements. With a Pur Sang you can opt for an 8 cylinder car with the non original but technically-correct firing order and a plain bearing crank rather than an original spec roller bearing crank that gives nightmares to most machine shops. Original Grand Prix cars had no dynamo but Pur Sang fit an alternator below the seat and a battery. These are things that just make life easier.
Anyway, that was a bit too much Bugatti content perhaps and I don't mean to derail this thread any further!

Your post was not a derailment, not by light-years! On the contrary, what you posted is what I intended and wanted when I started the thread. The participation so far is fantastic! Thanks to all. (More please.)

I wanted this to be a semi-permanent thread (much like the Garage Thread that Tom started) where people wander in and out on occasion with thoughts and pictures and links about automobiles as indicated in the heading. (Trucks, trains, planes and boats too for that matter, at least as far as I'm concerned.)

Your reply and all others here so far have fit the thread's title to a "T". Plus, I most appreciate the additional insider details that wouldn't be easily found (if at all) anywhere these days.

Thank you Thom, Rob and others for adding to the discussion. There is much out there to learn.

[Thom]

Well, thank you for your interest. I said earlier that the Bugatti was my holy grail of cars but this is perhaps even better, at least superior to the Bugatti from an engineering viewpoint. A certain E. Ferrari learned designing cars when he was working for Alfa Romeo back in those days...

[Thom]

Another car that was a one off that was thought lost but surfaced in Indiana (I think) years ago is the 1932 Bucciali TAV8-32 Saoutchik ‘Fleche d’Or’ . I went to Pebble Beach for about 10 years straight when I lived in California and learned to appreciate the Art Deco coachbuilt cars, and the Buccialli finally made it to Pebble, but I no longer lived there so missed the car, but its definitely interesting.

I saw one like this about 20 years at a local show, and perhaps the same car was displayed at the same show again earlier this year. Truly an imposing car. I have a book on Bucciali.

[blueline]

Well, thank you for your interest. I said earlier that the Bugatti was my holy grail of cars but this is perhaps even better, at least superior to the Bugatti from an engineering viewpoint. A certain E. Ferrari learned designing cars when he was working for Alfa Romeo back in those days...

Wow! I'd recommend anyone with 15 minutes to check out the video - what a car! Leno's enthusiasm is almost unrestrained and I can see why. The car sounds awesome and is fast. Imagine, 1932 design. Pur Sang made a masterpiece.

Thanks for sharing that!

[ROB III]

So I got carried away but found the following in doing more Bucciali research and found this which I'd not read previously.
https://www.auto-veteran.com/index.php/ ... f-bucciali
And after looking at the photo Thom shared on Alfa, I immediately thought of Tazio Nuvolari and his total underdog win in an older (physically and technically with less power) Alfa P3 TIPO B in the 1935 German GP (Nurburgring) against the blank check team of Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union, which lead me down ANOTHER rabbit hole of what the Auto Union and MB (W125 and W165) cars sound like when starting.

I heard the Silver Arrows at Laguna one year and the growl could easily be heard all around the track from staying in one place.
Sorry, wayyyy off point but also generally German in nature and background so a faint thread of relevance?

[blueline]

So I got carried away but found the following in doing more Bucciali research and found this which I'd not read previously.
https://www.auto-veteran.com/index.php/ ... f-bucciali
And after looking at the photo Thom shared on Alfa, I immediately thought of Tazio Nuvolari and his total underdog win in an older (physically and technically with less power) Alfa P3 TIPO B in the 1935 German GP (Nurburgring) against the blank check team of Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union, which lead me down ANOTHER rabbit hole of what the Auto Union and MB (W125 and W165) cars sound like when starting.

I heard the Silver Arrows at Laguna one year and the growl could easily be heard all around the track from staying in one place.
Sorry, wayyyy off point but also generally German in nature and background so a faint thread of relevance?

Nice Rob and definitely relevant!

This whole topic "How They Built Cars When Beauty Was All That Mattered" almost belongs in the Racing sub-forum ... it's tending that way which I like. When I started the topic, that's what I contemplated but then decided to go with "The O.K. Corral".

All the cars depicted on this topic were not only masterpieces of beauty but also were engineering marvels of their day (and are still so today). They would acquit themselves quite well if measured on the performance side of things, so the Racing sub would fit just fine. I may move it to "Racing". Feedback on a possible move?

Regarding the video - what great motors! I would love to hear them live, especially at speed on track. What a beautiful sound.

As for Auto Union, not sure if you saw this post and article from a few days ago about the AU V-16.

viewtopic.php?t=1640

[Thom]

The BRM V16 is another interesting car using many cylinders, though a post war effort. I am not aware of anything else that sounds like it. 16 pistons on a 1.5L engine, just imagine how small the pistons can be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMPDCNyQxE

[blueline]

The BRM V16 is another interesting car using many cylinders, though a post war effort. I am not aware of anything else that sounds like it. 16 pistons on a 1.5L engine, just imagine how small the pistons can be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMPDCNyQxE

What an engine note! Geeez, these motors we're discussing are beyond awesome.

If my search and arithmetic is correct, the 1.5L BRM V16 is 92 cubic inches which is a tiny 5.75 cubic inches per cylinder! As a comparison, I just looked up a few single-cylinder glow-plug type model aircraft engines. One I looked at was 1.25 cubic inches with a 1.24" bore and a 1.02" stroke, with max rpm of 10k. The size is basically 1/4 less than one of the V16 cylinders.

If Wiki is correct, the BRM 16V has a bore and stroke of 1.95" and 1.90" respectively. That's tiny, for sure! Can you imagine 16 of those babies all humming together at 12,000 RPM!

[blueline]

The BRM V16 is another interesting car using many cylinders, though a post war effort. I am not aware of anything else that sounds like it. 16 pistons on a 1.5L engine, just imagine how small the pistons can be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMPDCNyQxE

One other thought is that I cannot imagine racing (or even just driving spiritedly on track) in a car like that. There is NO protection - nothing for the top third of the body. Any kind of accident that doesn't involve the car staying right side up must have deadly odds.

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