Darton Sleeves

[gruhsy]

Ah

That’s was where my confusion was.

Any particular Mahle piston size you would choose for a 2.5?

I sat down with my friend Joe at Fidelity and he can easily install sleeves.

The cost of Nikasil work is 1954$ Canadian plus I have to get the blocks to Winnipeg. That didn’t include honing cost which I would still have to get pricing.

Easier for me to get Mid wet sleeves.

The machines at Fidelity are way beyond what Darton recommends.

Would just have to figure out honing….hopefully I can convince them to buy a honing machine.

If I were to do a project like this I would bore the MID sleeves out to 104mm, get a 3.0 crank and make it a 3.0 liter. The pistons are going to be custom so you might as well get the 3.0 pin height. The sleeves and machining are the same cost, the pistons are the same costs, you just need to find a 3.0 crank.
Any engine shop can home them for you, its standard stuff.
Don’t underestimate the costs to install the sleeves. Its $1k to $2k in labor most places.

He hasn’t charged anything yet for the last 10 years.
My stuff gets done when his guys have nothing to do.
Soloracer has a 3.0 crank available. If it’s not sold by the time I do this I will grab it.

My 3.0 block and crank are going back together also. Just won’t be Alusil anymore.

I’m finally getting back to the car stuff as the motorcycle spending is almost complete.

[michaelmount123]

One other obstacle with putting a 3L crank into a 2.5 block is rod clearance at the pan rails. Most aftermarket rods will clear, but using OEM rods will hit. You can clearance them to fit with some light machine work or hand grinding, just leave enough meat around the oil passage (along the pan rail from pickup to the pump) so it still seals up against the lower case half.

[gruhsy]

Molnar looks to be the best value option stronger than stock.

[Tom]

One other obstacle with putting a 3L crank into a 2.5 block is rod clearance at the pan rails. Most aftermarket rods will clear, but using OEM rods will hit. You can clearance them to fit with some light machine work or hand grinding, just leave enough meat around the oil passage (along the pan rail from pickup to the pump) so it still seals up against the lower case half.

I should have mentioned that. I learned that on my own so opted for Carrillo rods....

[chris white]

if you are building a 3.0 turbo and using stock rods.....then you might be missing the point!
I stopped reusing stock rods on just about everything a while back. They are way too heavy and 35-40 years old with unknown history. Good paper weights!

[gruhsy]

So a loaded Honing question for Chris and Michael.

Michael you have mentioned aiming for 0.0002 roundness.

Millennium USA has a page referencing 0.00025 roundness or better if customer wants.

Kind of a subjective question.

Any thoughts how to ensure a shop outside of Fidelity will achieve 0.0002 or better before them actually doing the work.
Is that type of accuracy a normal request or outside norm?
I can obviously measure things after at Fidelity but for the …..well being of said shops legs arms or fingers ….

Suggestions?

I will because I can have Fidelity make me a honing deck plate. I know that it might not be something that you use but it won’t cost me anything to do it.

[chris white]

no easy answer on that. I usually see what they have for machinery. Good honing takes good equipment. If they have a 1/2" drill and a dingle ball hone....go somewhere else!
You can usually tell a good machinist by their shop and there habits. Good machinist are OCD.

[michaelmount123]

So a loaded Honing question for Chris and Michael.

Michael you have mentioned aiming for 0.0002 roundness.

Millennium USA has a page referencing 0.00025 roundness or better if customer wants.

Kind of a subjective question.

Any thoughts how to ensure a shop outside of Fidelity will achieve 0.0002 or better before them actually doing the work.
Is that type of accuracy a normal request or outside norm?
I can obviously measure things after at Fidelity but for the …..well being of said shops legs arms or fingers ….

Suggestions?

I will because I can have Fidelity make me a honing deck plate. I know that it might not be something that you use but it won’t cost me anything to do it.

Millennium offers tolerance to .0002 upon request (used to, anyway). This may be offered by others, but few can achieve it. I always asked for this tolerance level, and measurements upon return confirmed they can do it. A good running, durable, and powerful engine requires very round, very square, and very accurate surfaces. This is what "blueprinting" is all about. A shop that can maintain close tolerances is a great shop.

A deck plate is not needed for the 944. They are intended for blocks where the head studs are threaded into the deck surface. When these are torqued, the cylinder bores distort. A deck plate simulates the head being torqued to the deck surface when the block is honed. The result is a round cylinder (no distortion) with the cylinder head installed. The 944 has its head studs threaded near the base of the cylinders, so there's VERY little distortion when the head is torqued. I measured 944 cylinders without a head, and again with a head installed and torqued. The difference was insignificant, so I found no need to use a deck plate when finishing the 944 cylinders.